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[Music]

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exploring

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the bazaar your e-ticket ride into the

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world of the paranormal

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strap yourself in as we traverse the

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universe

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exploring the unexplained ufos

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ghosts lost worlds cryptozoology

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as well as other dimensions it's time to

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now you're electrifying hosts of

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exploring the bizarre

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now this is a weird place would it kill

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someone to

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turn on the air conditioning

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is that some sort of ritual going on

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over there or

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that's not a goat that's the lord of the

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underground oh come

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on you mean to tell me that's supposed

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to be lucifer i always thought that

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satanism was just a fantasy that anna

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levay had made up just to get

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people naked on his altar our show is

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supposed to be about

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ufos and the paranormal not satanism

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well tim some people think satan is

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behind the ufo phenomena

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remember we did a book a couple years

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back round trip to hell on a flying

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saucer

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oh lord just let's just get us out of

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here

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let's let's come on let's just buzz past

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bells above there and get back to vegas

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a sinful place but nothing like this our

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our guest tonight that might just might

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save us from evil

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well tim uh we're back we're back in a

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safe location back in sin

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city i guess right well at least there's

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air conditioning here

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and and did you notice the sound of a

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train i don't know whether that was the

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uh

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luciferian express or not but um

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i'm sitting here in the courtyard

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uh of the ramada inn and

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we had a wonderful two-day trip we came

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here to see the meteorite shower

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unfortunately we did not see one

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meteorite and nor

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have i heard a train uh whistle before

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this uh

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the start of the program but it's a good

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way certainly to

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uh announce our show to our

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block of followers and speaking of flock

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let us

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uh introduce our guest for this evening

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who is a

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oh there we go here it is again

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[Laughter]

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you know you know it's going to be a

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good show when you have a uh

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a train whistle in the background and

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tim i just wanted to take just a

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quick minute here to uh remind everybody

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that

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i'm going to be a guest speaker uh this

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sunday

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or this saturday at a time travel con

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now it's a time travel conference it's

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uh because of the

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crotavirus we're having to do it uh all

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uh online but because of that the uh

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ticket prices are

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great all people just have to uh visit

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the website

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time travel con dot com

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and get your ticket they're they're

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going

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to

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of our fans of exploring the bazaar

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there

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and what time are you going on well

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it'll be uh 11 o'clock

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eastern uh that's about uh 2 o'clock

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pacific time and who else is on the

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program that we might know

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oh well um our uh our good friend

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preston dennett

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is going to be honest it's really

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wonderful yep he's got a uh uh he's got

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a

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uh one of our fellow kcor

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uh um host uh solaris uh uh

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bluehaven she's going to be on and uh

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and many more it's it's

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it's uh it's an all-day event and

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i i i guarantee that there'll be

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somebody

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is it's just going to be a fascinating

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show all around

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well you know i'm up in the woodstock

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area here and i can swear

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that this is a a portal of a time

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dimension portal because

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everybody seems to be walking around uh

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with tie-dye

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uh clothing uh now i i have a hunch that

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it has something to do with the fact

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that

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at the last minute the the 50th

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anniversary of woodstock was cancelled

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so somebody probably got you know like

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50 000 garments

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that they're trying to uh unload but uh

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indeed indeed this is where they all

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seem to be

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converging yeah anyway but enough of our

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idol chatter we we have a very

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interesting guest

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this evening and so why don't you

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introduce him it'll be my pleasure now

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this will be the first time that our

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guest has been on

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exploring the bazaar so i'd like to

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welcome dr

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raymond beauchette his writings and

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anthology of the unexplained

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the collected collected annals of the

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journal of foreign research center

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bloodless cuts the complete collected

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works of thomas r

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adams and a time to stand when

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government turns its back on god

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now dr boshi is boche is well known

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as the primary investigators of the 1980

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bentwaters ufo incident something you're

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familiar with tim

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and he's also recognized for his

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extensive work in the areas of

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animal mutilations out of place animal

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sightings bigfoot reports

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the men and black phenomena and occult

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religious

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religions and philosophy so

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dr william yep thank you very much for

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being with us tonight on exploring the

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bizarre

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tim it's very uh very nice to be here

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it's my pleasure

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well you know i i'm curious though i

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think that

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most people would recognize rey's name

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uh from a book that

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nick redford uh wrote a number of

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years ago in which it was revealed that

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inside the military circles there was a

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group of individuals who believed

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that ufos were real indeed but that

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satan or demonic demons were behind the

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phenomena

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and they were afraid that if this

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information were

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uh released to the public uh lucifer

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himself

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might make more of a um

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of an appearance here in this uh world

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of ours

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and ray i think was uh now ray why don't

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you tell us how how exactly were you

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involved with that group and how did you

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get to know these people and who were

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they exactly

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well i can't um i can't really reveal

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who the the two gentlemen who came to me

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uh

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were or are but i'll give you the story

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behind it

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yes please do yes i received a telephone

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call

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in november of 91 i believe

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and it was from a gentleman who said he

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and a colleague were in the area

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and they worked for the department of

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defense and they

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wanted to get together and and uh

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pick my brain about some things uh

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related to

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the unexplained so we met

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and it was uh it was a really intriguing

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conversation

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we met at a hotel here in lincoln had

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lunch and then um

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retired to a corner of the of the lobby

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that was kind of out of the

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out of the way and had a a long

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discussion

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it was uh almost

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almost given like a lecture on what they

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were working on

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and they went into great detail about

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the mechanisms that they thought were

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behind this and that

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involves a lot of hypotheses and

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whole concept of enfoldment and how

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things work there we won't

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get into that unless you have specific

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questions but they outlined a number of

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things

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related to the government's what we

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would call now uh either project

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stargate or

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mkultra projects

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and they had continued on with this

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and what they were researching

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was a way to contact

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and harness the

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force the power behind a group of

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non-human entities and that's that's how

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they referred to them as

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nhe's non-human entities

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that they had hoped their hope was

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that they were going to be able to

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some of the powers that these entities

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had displayed uh

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ultimately what they wanted to do was

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what would have been some of those

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powers that they mentioned

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uh well there were things like um do you

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remember a few years ago

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the book that was made into a kind of an

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interesting movie called the men who

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stare at goats

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oh yes of course that that

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figures into that because one of the

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things they wanted to do was to be able

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to kill at a distance

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and of course since the government

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always likes to put a nice euphemism

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on everything that they're doing that

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wasn't called

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referred to as killing at a distance it

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was called negative healing

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so i got i got a kind of a chuckle out

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of that although it was a pretty macabre

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uh thing to be doing but uh yeah they

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were

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to be speaking on this weekend

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uh time travel interdimensional travel

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uh being able to remote view very

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accurately in

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as in terms of uh project your mind

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into a local remote location and

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literally

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read documents that were there uh those

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sorts of things

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and that's the that's the kind of things

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that they were working on their concern

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came because they they told me they were

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both uh both christians

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and they were concerned because of some

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of the ethical and moral

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implications of what they were doing

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which

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included if and again if

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if this was all true if it was accurate

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and i have no way to prove it

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the information they showed me with um

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several photographs

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of four individuals who had

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or excuse me three three individuals

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four photos of each

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who had been intentionally

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killed or negatively healed in their

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experimentation

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extremely intriguing uh they were

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convinced

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that from their experience every

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type of contact that they had with these

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non-human entities

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resulted in a very negative experience

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for the researcher and anyone else who

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was involved with the experiment

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uh they were they had become convinced

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that these were these were demonic

288
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:02,560
entities

289
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:06,079
uh they mentioned and i

290
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:08,240
have not been able to find any

291
00:12:12,069 --> 00:12:10,560
corroborating evidence for this

292
00:12:14,790 --> 00:12:12,079
uh but they had mentioned that there

293
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:14,800
were even uh satanic rituals and

294
00:12:19,190 --> 00:12:17,680
human sacrifices that were involved with

295
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:19,200
some of these things

296
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:21,200
um so they wanted they wanted a

297
00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:22,959
theological take on it because of my

298
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:24,639
background as a as a paranormal

299
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:25,920
investigator

300
00:12:29,279 --> 00:12:33,350
passed go ahead

301
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:35,110
oh well no the only the only thing i

302
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,720
would comment on is that

303
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:38,720
there were a couple of cases uh you know

304
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:41,279
about the the men in the masks in brazil

305
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:42,800
that were found deceased along the

306
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:43,920
railroad uh

307
00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:47,279
uh yes yeah well that kind of maybe fits

308
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:48,160
in with the conte

309
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:49,680
uh concept but their bodies weren't

310
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:52,880
mutilated or anything there like that

311
00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:54,399
yeah it's you know there were there

312
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:56,240
there are a couple of things like that

313
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:58,240
um the one sort of mystery human

314
00:13:02,629 --> 00:12:59,920
mutilation in brazil

315
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:02,639
and then the um uh the two men with the

316
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:04,000
lead masks

317
00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:07,040
oh yes and of course

318
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,079
people have just disappeared uh

319
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:12,240
on wrath and wilkinson and uh i you know

320
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:13,760
there have been people who mysteriously

321
00:13:19,750 --> 00:13:15,440
disappeared and all that have been

322
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:19,760
kind of uh related to uh ufos

323
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:22,880
and so forth you bet yeah and

324
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:26,000
it all it all figures in in in some way

325
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:26,800
because of the

326
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:29,600
the scope of what they were doing and so

327
00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:31,200
you know if they're trying to be able to

328
00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:32,160
um

329
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:35,360
to perfect the ability to switch between

330
00:13:38,389 --> 00:13:36,560
dimensions

331
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:38,399
um how many of the mysterious

332
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:40,399
disappearances that that happen

333
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:42,720
uh could be related to that i you know

334
00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:45,040
it's it's an unanswerable question

335
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:47,440
but it's certainly um it's certainly

336
00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:53,269
now why did they pick you though in

337
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:54,560
particular to come

338
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:57,920
to uh to ask you these questions and to

339
00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:01,519
lecture you as you say uh the impression

340
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:02,720
that uh that they gave

341
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:06,560
me and i think uh was accurate was that

342
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:09,519
um again they they wanted to they wanted

343
00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:11,600
a solid theological take on this and

344
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:12,959
because of my

345
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:16,079
my background and my

346
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:18,480
background as a paranormal investigator

347
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:19,760
they thought i would have

348
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:23,199
been in the perfect position to

349
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:26,480
assess from but from both angles what uh

350
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:29,600
what they were saying now i

351
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:32,720
i understand that rationale but

352
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:35,760
i had sort of the same question myself i

353
00:14:39,829 --> 00:14:36,480
mean why

354
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,839
um why me why not um why not pick a new

355
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:41,360
york times reporter why not

356
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:44,240
why not pick the times religion reporter

357
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:45,040
uh you know

358
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:48,160
go to them um i

359
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:52,000
i haven't i have no idea uh

360
00:14:55,030 --> 00:14:54,000
why and they never they never offered

361
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:55,040
anything other than

362
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:56,639
than that explanation that they they

363
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:58,079
thought i was the most appropriate one

364
00:15:01,910 --> 00:14:59,120
to come to

365
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:01,920
okay now did you check their background

366
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:04,000
at all to verify that they who

367
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:07,040
they were who they claimed to be i did

368
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:09,360
and they were both uh they were both who

369
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:10,480
they claimed to be they had the

370
00:15:15,189 --> 00:15:12,000
credentials they said they had

371
00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:15,199
and they were uh employed

372
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:18,720
by the department of defense and uh you

373
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:19,440
know once you're

374
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,839
once you're in the dod you can you can

375
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:23,279
fulfill a number of roles

376
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:25,279
and be working for other organizations

377
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:26,480
and and uh

378
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:28,880
be seconded out to different groups uh

379
00:15:32,389 --> 00:15:30,320
so i i can't

380
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:32,399
yeah they would not give me a project

381
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,560
name because they said that would be

382
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:36,160
far too dangerous because it would it

383
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:37,839
would identify them

384
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:40,240
and um they didn't they didn't want to

385
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:41,519
take a chance

386
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:48,470
you know i i put it out there

387
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:51,040
shortly after it happened and i was able

388
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:51,680
to

389
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:55,920
give a limited release of the

390
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:57,839
information to uh

391
00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:00,240
uh the research community and wanted to

392
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:02,320
get some input i said you know what

393
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:04,800
here's the story i don't know if it's

394
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:05,600
true

395
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:08,639
what do you think uh it was many years

396
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:10,560
later i believe in 2007

397
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:13,600
that nick redfern got a hold of me and

398
00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:15,519
he was interested in the story so i gave

399
00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:17,759
him all of the background that i had

400
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:20,800
um and he began to chase it down

401
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:23,839
and nick was able to uncover uh the name

402
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:24,480
of a group

403
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:27,920
not not the as far as i know

404
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:30,720
not the men that i met with but a group

405
00:16:33,749 --> 00:16:32,399
within the government called the collins

406
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:33,759
elite

407
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:36,000
who were a group of very fundamentalist

408
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:36,959
christians

409
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:40,720
who looked at this entire field as

410
00:16:46,949 --> 00:16:43,920
being demonic uh and evil

411
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:46,959
and were trying to figure out how to

412
00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:49,920
how to deal with it they had a very much

413
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:50,639
uh

414
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:55,120
mindset from what nick was able to

415
00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:56,079
discover

416
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:58,240
uh and we're looking at this as you know

417
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,480
the uh the precursor to

418
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:03,040
uh the rise of the antichrist and the

419
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:04,160
second coming of jesus

420
00:17:08,949 --> 00:17:06,720
now who okay it's the the collins elite

421
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:08,959
who is collins

422
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:12,079
i have no idea i have no idea that's the

423
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:12,880
name that they

424
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:16,880
provided nick and um uh you know who

425
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:20,000
who collins is i don't know and why

426
00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:21,039
they're elite

427
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:23,120
i'm not sure of that either yeah yeah

428
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:25,199
okay okay so

429
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:27,280
how many congress did you have more than

430
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:29,200
one meeting with these gentlemen

431
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:33,200
i had two lengthy face-to-face meetings

432
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:35,120
i had a couple of phone conversations

433
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:36,559
and i had one

434
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:40,559
uh very brief meeting where they handed

435
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:43,679
uh a floppy disk off to me

436
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:47,200
to uh containing answers to questions

437
00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:49,360
linda howe had submitted to them through

438
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:50,720
me and they

439
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:53,039
they were in the area and they just

440
00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:54,400
stopped by my office

441
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,679
i was working for the university of

442
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:57,679
nebraska by that time

443
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:00,640
and handed me the uh the disc which i

444
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:03,919
then forwarded on to linda

445
00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:06,400
so i had i was able to contact them by a

446
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:07,520
post office box

447
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,280
and a telephone number uh i would call

448
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:13,440
and leave a message and they would get

449
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:15,360
back to me sometimes

450
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:17,520
you know a day later sometimes six

451
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:18,640
months later

452
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:21,840
uh i didn't have really other than that

453
00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:23,600
other than a post office box

454
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:26,960
and this phone number i had no way to uh

455
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:28,400
to contact them

456
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:30,559
so are you in touch with them now or is

457
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:31,760
that a

458
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:34,320
thing of the past that's that's a thing

459
00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:35,600
of the past

460
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:40,840
it um it was it was those

461
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,600
uh those three

462
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:45,600
face-to-face meetings too long one very

463
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:47,440
short uh

464
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,880
a telephone call or two and uh

465
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:52,480
a couple of letters exchanged to the

466
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:54,000
post office box

467
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:57,120
uh principally because

468
00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:00,400
they had asked me they knew i was uh

469
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:02,799
quite close friends with linda howe yeah

470
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:03,600
and

471
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:06,640
they were interested in reading her um

472
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:11,760
glimpses of other realities and so we um

473
00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:15,360
i i put them together uh they

474
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:17,360
didn't want to make direct contact with

475
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:18,960
linda because they wanted to limit the

476
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:21,120
number of uh

477
00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:23,200
exposures of who they really were to

478
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:24,160
people

479
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,679
so they just they used me as a

480
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:27,200
go-between and

481
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,480
linda of course had a number of

482
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:30,320
questions for them and

483
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:32,720
they were willing to uh to answer those

484
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:33,440
so i

485
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:36,720
uh on two occasions uh received a disc

486
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:38,480
of questions from linda

487
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:41,039
uh i just left it in the envelope sheet

488
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:42,320
in which she'd sent it to me

489
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:44,080
put it in another one address it to the

490
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:46,480
po box and then it was returned to me

491
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:48,240
once by mail and then

492
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:51,120
once uh the final one in person okay so

493
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:52,559
what uh

494
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,240
what is your assessment of their

495
00:20:02,310 --> 00:19:56,480
assessment

496
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:02,320
um i think there are

497
00:20:06,149 --> 00:20:03,840
i think there's i think there's a great

498
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:06,159
deal of legitimacy to it i think there

499
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:06,960
is

500
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:16,080
there

501
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:18,880
but how you parse the disinformation

502
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:19,440
from

503
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:21,760
the true information when it's the sort

504
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:24,880
of thing that is so highly classified

505
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:27,039
you will probably never be able to run

506
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:29,120
across any documentation on it

507
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:33,120
um but from from what nick was able to

508
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:33,600
uh

509
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:38,880
there are there are efforts like this

510
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:40,320
going on

511
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:43,039
and there is a group that's concerned

512
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:44,080
about this

513
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:47,360
um where it is now i don't know

514
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:50,400
i don't know do you okay if this were to

515
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:51,679
be true

516
00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:55,280
uh that uh it's a satanic

517
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:57,679
i i don't even know how really to use

518
00:21:01,750 --> 00:20:59,840
the term because i just can't get behind

519
00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:01,760
the fact that there's one entity called

520
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:03,440
satan and he's doing all this stuff

521
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:06,080
but oh okay let's say that it's a

522
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:06,880
satanic

523
00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:09,840
influence here does the people the the

524
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:10,159
pub

525
00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:13,600
this or should it be kept

526
00:21:18,230 --> 00:21:16,320
under covers and if it were not kept

527
00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:18,240
under covers would it mean that lucifer

528
00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:19,039
would be

529
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:21,520
uh left to do his bidding in the world

530
00:21:26,789 --> 00:21:24,480
more so than perhaps he is now

531
00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:26,799
see this is this is an interesting this

532
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:29,440
is an interesting aspect of it

533
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:31,200
uh i don't know if we've got time before

534
00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:33,440
the break to really get into this

535
00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:35,440
um no i thought i'd give you a

536
00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:36,720
cliffhanger

537
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:39,280
you bet well let's let's let that sit

538
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:39,760
because

539
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,960
for one thing part of the problem with

540
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:45,120
the overarching view of the collins

541
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,240
elite and

542
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:47,919
some of the things these gentlemen

543
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:49,440
shared with me

544
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:53,039
are the the the theological

545
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:56,400
uh non-sequiturs that are there uh

546
00:22:03,110 --> 00:21:59,919
you know lucifer or a demonic entity

547
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:03,120
doesn't need anyone's permission to

548
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:06,320
um to jump in here so your question if

549
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:07,520
you know if people knew about it would

550
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:09,760
he give him a more open hand

551
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:12,960
he's he's allowed uh he's allowed to do

552
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:15,360
whatever he wants within whatever limits

553
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:16,240
god himself

554
00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:20,000
sets for him to be constrained by

555
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:22,240
all right let's leave it at that for now

556
00:22:25,590 --> 00:22:23,679
as we go to our

557
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:25,600
bottom of the hour break when we come

558
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:26,960
back we will continue

559
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:30,480
our conversation about the collins elite

560
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:31,280
and more

561
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,280
on exploring the bizarre so stay tuned

562
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:35,440
exploring the bazaar i'm tim schwartz

563
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:36,640
our guest tonight

564
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:39,760
is dr raymond

565
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:42,480
and i should point out that uh dr

566
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:43,760
broshet

567
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:46,880
uh also used to uh put out the uh the

568
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:47,520
journal

569
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:50,799
of the fortian research center the

570
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:54,159
uh fortian research journal which uh i

571
00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:54,480
think

572
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:57,200
uh tim i've got to i've got some copies

573
00:23:03,990 --> 00:22:57,600
that

574
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:04,000
no there's been times where you would

575
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:05,840
just send me boxes of stuff because you

576
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:07,280
didn't have room in your apartment

577
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:07,760
anymore

578
00:23:10,150 --> 00:23:09,120
i don't have yeah yeah but i would have

579
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:10,160
kept those

580
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:13,919
[Laughter]

581
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:16,080
i wonder i wonder if any of those are

582
00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:17,760
digitized on that

583
00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:34,310
that's an adventure in itself it is

584
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:36,159
indeed yeah yeah it is

585
00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:37,840
they've got so many pages there but when

586
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:39,679
you go to actually find the material you

587
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:40,960
can't find it anyway

588
00:23:48,549 --> 00:23:44,799
tim take command well i was just uh uh

589
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:48,559
ready to uh continue on our uh we had to

590
00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:48,880
uh

591
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:52,640
so um unceremoniously interview for our

592
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:54,159
bottom of the hour break so

593
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:56,480
you know going back to uh 10 the other

594
00:24:02,310 --> 00:23:58,000
dam's previous question

595
00:24:05,269 --> 00:24:02,320
so take it away yeah the the idea of

596
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:05,279
whether or not this should be exposed uh

597
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:06,240
you know from

598
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:08,080
from a christian theological point of

599
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:16,830
satan is recognized as

600
00:24:23,669 --> 00:24:19,919
um a fallen

601
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:23,679
angel fallen creature uh created by god

602
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:26,400
but still under god's control ultimately

603
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:27,120
uh

604
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:29,279
you know you can you can veer off into

605
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:30,159
so many different

606
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:33,360
um uh theological discussions here about

607
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:34,159
uh

608
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,200
the existence of evil

609
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:39,440
uh in god's presence and so on that's

610
00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:41,039
called a theodicy

611
00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:44,240
uh but it really comes down to the fact

612
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:44,960
that

613
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:48,799
if if god is who god says he is

614
00:24:51,909 --> 00:24:51,360
then he is in control he is sovereign

615
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:51,919
and

616
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:56,320
created being

617
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:59,440
can do so satan doesn't have unlimited

618
00:25:03,029 --> 00:25:00,400
control

619
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:03,039
satan is uh always constrained within

620
00:25:06,149 --> 00:25:04,559
certain limits if you look at the book

621
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:06,159
of job

622
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:09,600
you see that god allows satan

623
00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:16,070
satan is allowed to test job but god

624
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:17,440
always puts limits on it

625
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:19,039
well you can take his you can take his

626
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:20,480
possessions but you can't

627
00:25:25,590 --> 00:25:23,840
harm him well okay now you can harm him

628
00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:25,600
but you can't take his life

629
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:28,080
and that sort of so god puts limits on

630
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:28,640
that

631
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:31,760
and so if it were discovered

632
00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:34,240
that uh or released made public that the

633
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:36,159
government was involved in research like

634
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:36,880
this

635
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:40,240
uh it wouldn't change much uh other than

636
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:42,240
to maybe

637
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:43,840
confirm in a lot of people's minds that

638
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:45,279
you really can't trust the government

639
00:25:51,510 --> 00:25:50,230
and they've they've jumped into things

640
00:25:54,789 --> 00:25:51,520
that they would

641
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:54,799
maybe be better uh better left alone

642
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:58,400
but uh i you know so i i don't know it's

643
00:26:03,350 --> 00:25:59,279
it's so

644
00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:03,360
it's such a it's such a bizarre uh

645
00:26:10,149 --> 00:26:06,559
set of circumstances um i had

646
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:10,159
i had sort of uh said well you know i uh

647
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:11,919
i put this out

648
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:16,720
originally um and i believe 1991 or 1992

649
00:26:19,750 --> 00:26:17,840
when it uh

650
00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:19,760
shortly after my first meeting as it

651
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:21,600
happened to see about a response he

652
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:23,120
hadn't heard anything

653
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:26,240
uh you know 17 years later

654
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:28,880
nick calls me up and said hey i'm kind

655
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:30,799
of interested in this tell me about it

656
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:33,600
and then he's able to pick up threads

657
00:26:37,990 --> 00:26:34,559
and

658
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:38,000
conjecture on my part

659
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:40,960
because i don't know for certain but uh

660
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:41,760
at the time

661
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:44,320
in the early 90s uh offutt air force

662
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:46,080
base in omaha nebraska

663
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:49,200
just 50 miles from where i am in lincoln

664
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:50,799
was also the headquarters of the

665
00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:53,360
strategic air command

666
00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:56,480
and they had an air force office of

667
00:27:03,430 --> 00:26:59,600
uh scientific science and research at uh

668
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:03,440
offutt and my feeling is that they were

669
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:05,440
involved in something that was

670
00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:08,799
uh going on at offutt

671
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:10,640
and would visit at least on a periodical

672
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,159
basis uh

673
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,320
and so they were in the area and reached

674
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:16,320
out to me and i i have

675
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:17,520
i won't go into it i have some

676
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:20,240
suspicions of who a person that i was in

677
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:21,919
contact with that was

678
00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:24,240
very highly placed in that air force

679
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:25,760
office of science and research

680
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:28,480
uh at the time may have dropped my name

681
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:29,120
to these

682
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:33,120
now the fact that

683
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:35,200
it all that time lagged and then nick

684
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:36,720
was able to pick it up and find new

685
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:37,279
threads

686
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,840
and take it on further uh which led to

687
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:41,840
the discovery of this group the collins

688
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:42,480
elite

689
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:45,520
um fascinating i don't

690
00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:48,000
i don't know what we can draw from it

691
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:49,279
conclusively

692
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:53,360
but um it's it's a it's a fascinating

693
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:55,279
scenario

694
00:28:02,630 --> 00:27:58,480
well and and it is i mean it's it's just

695
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:02,640
another one of the thousands and

696
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:03,520
thousands of

697
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:06,559
threads that seem to

698
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:09,760
be connected to the whole phenomenon

699
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:11,760
that you know you can pull on that

700
00:28:19,029 --> 00:28:18,710
forever and ultimately you're still left

701
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:19,039
with

702
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:21,200
probably even more questions than you

703
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:23,120
originally started with

704
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,720
yeah it's um you know i've i

705
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:28,559
became interested and started

706
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:30,399
researching this when i was

707
00:28:36,630 --> 00:28:33,679
10 years old in 1965 and

708
00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:36,640
i have looked at it ever since as as

709
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:39,919
very much an intellectual exercise

710
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:41,600
it doesn't take long if you get serious

711
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:43,120
about it

712
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,840
to come to the conclusion that you're

713
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:47,440
not going to

714
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,880
uh given something miraculous happening

715
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:52,720
you're not going to come to a final

716
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:53,840
answer

717
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:57,120
um and early on i corresponded

718
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:00,320
in the late 60s early 70s with john keel

719
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:04,640
and he and jacques vallee had

720
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:07,120
an incredible incredibly positive

721
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:10,080
influence on the way i looked at things

722
00:29:13,909 --> 00:29:13,200
when kiel said you know it's these these

723
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:13,919
things aren't

724
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:16,080
from another planet these are something

725
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:17,039
else

726
00:29:21,669 --> 00:29:19,919
uh and he coined his ultra-terrestrial

727
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:21,679
theory and then jacques villa said the

728
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:22,080
uh

729
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:24,640
the extraterrestrial hypothesis is too

730
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:25,279
simple

731
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:27,840
there's more going on here and i i fully

732
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:28,720
agree

733
00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:31,279
and so for about the first after about

734
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:32,960
the first five years

735
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:36,559
um i had come to the firm conclusion

736
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:38,000
that there is more here than just

737
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:40,320
spaceships from another planet this is

738
00:29:46,389 --> 00:29:43,279
something much more complex

739
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:46,399
well on his uh uh uh jacques valley

740
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:48,720
said he he'd be really disappointed if

741
00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:50,000
it did just turn out to be

742
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:52,840
nothing more than spaceships from other

743
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:55,279
planets

744
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:56,640
yeah it would be a tremendous

745
00:30:02,549 --> 00:29:59,840
disappointment it's um

746
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:02,559
it's like the old adage of peeling an

747
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:03,120
onion

748
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,200
you just keep it just it just keeps

749
00:30:10,789 --> 00:30:07,440
going it just keeps going

750
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:10,799
um so now okay

751
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:13,919
you you said that you got started at

752
00:30:17,669 --> 00:30:16,799
at a fairly young age uh was there

753
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:17,679
anything

754
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:21,279
specifically that got you started on

755
00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:22,159
this

756
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:23,840
that you can remember i mean you know 10

757
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:26,159
years old yeah though the one

758
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:29,200
the one it's actually two events

759
00:30:36,070 --> 00:30:33,600
it was it was a summer of 65 and

760
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:36,080
we had experience and i don't recall

761
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:38,240
exactly the circumstances my hometown of

762
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:40,320
nebraska city

763
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:42,240
we had experienced a blackout a power

764
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:44,000
outage and

765
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,279
we were out on our back porch and saw

766
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:49,440
this

767
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:52,720
i can only describe it as a fiery disc

768
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:55,760
cross over our house i

769
00:31:01,190 --> 00:31:00,320
you know i um 60 years on now i would

770
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:01,200
suppose

771
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:04,480
uh four or five hundred feet

772
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:06,880
above the house uh going from south to

773
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:07,840
north

774
00:31:14,149 --> 00:31:11,120
and then in 1965 with the great uh

775
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:14,159
blackout in the northeast and the

776
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:16,640
subsequent reports of a strange ufo

777
00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:17,600
around the uh

778
00:31:21,509 --> 00:31:20,399
substation in upstate new york that may

779
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,519
have triggered it

780
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:23,360
um that's what really caught my

781
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:25,200
attention and

782
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:28,799
so that got me interested and i started

783
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:30,080
to dig

784
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:31,840
wherever i could find uh you know the

785
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:33,279
library at that time

786
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:35,600
did not have uh did not have a lot of

787
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:37,279
things one of the first books that i

788
00:31:40,389 --> 00:31:37,840
found

789
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:40,399
in our public library was uh actually

790
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:41,200
two

791
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:43,120
uh flying saucer series business by

792
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:44,960
frank edwards and behind the flying

793
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:46,960
saucers by frank scully

794
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:50,640
and uh that's what got me started and uh

795
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:54,000
my first my first purchase of a

796
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:57,760
a piece of ufo material was the flying

797
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:59,200
saucer menace

798
00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:00,960
which was written by brad steiger was

799
00:32:06,230 --> 00:32:02,799
put out in a magazine form

800
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,240
and um that

801
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:08,880
very good book it is it's fabulous that

802
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:09,360
so that

803
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:13,840
that's that's set me on the path of

804
00:32:21,909 --> 00:32:16,399
way too much money spent on books over

805
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:25,909
yes you and and all of us here

806
00:32:29,669 --> 00:32:27,440
on tonight's show got no room don't

807
00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:29,679
don't don't send me any more books i

808
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:30,159
have no

809
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:32,880
no place to put them i i swear not one

810
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:33,519
not one

811
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:36,240
cubicle do i have i got 40 file cabinets

812
00:32:41,910 --> 00:32:37,919
and everything around me is

813
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:41,920
just piles of books i know the feeling

814
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:44,799
[Laughter]

815
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:48,240
now um you know looking at your at your

816
00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:50,799
uh bio i mean you know you you've been

817
00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:51,919
involved with

818
00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:54,960
a lot of of of things

819
00:33:04,549 --> 00:32:58,000
outside of ufos and and

820
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:08,549
people that you work with

821
00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:11,279
when they find out that you're also

822
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:13,279
interested in this kind of stuff what

823
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,640
what has the reaction been you know

824
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:18,640
for myself and tim beckley you know as

825
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:19,919
as well

826
00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:23,360
uh i have never let it uh be secret

827
00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:25,840
you know what uh uh what my interests

828
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:26,399
are

829
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:28,080
but then again you know some people that

830
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:29,919
we have talked to i mean they

831
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:31,360
they keep their they keep their

832
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:33,440
interests very close you know

833
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:35,600
to their breasts and don't don't really

834
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:37,679
uh talk about it too much you know

835
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:40,799
what about you i'm i'm much like uh i'm

836
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:42,480
much like you two tims

837
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:45,440
uh i never i've never made a secret of

838
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:45,919
it

839
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:47,919
uh you know i got a lot of i got a lot

840
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:49,120
of ribbing in uh

841
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:52,080
in junior high in high school uh as

842
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:54,399
people as i got into the workforce

843
00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:56,880
and people understood that uh you know

844
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:59,039
gosh i'm i'm not an idiot i don't drool

845
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:00,080
too often

846
00:34:03,269 --> 00:34:02,399
uh you know i know i seem to know what

847
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:03,279
i'm doing and

848
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:06,799
conduct myself fairly well uh i've never

849
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:10,320
i've never had any any uh

850
00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:12,320
any compulsion to uh to hide it from

851
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,720
anyone and generally after people

852
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:16,800
understand that you're you know you're a

853
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,720
competent serious person

854
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,560
uh they begin to get interested in spite

855
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:22,480
of themselves even the ones who uh

856
00:34:26,470 --> 00:34:25,679
who really uh who really laugh it off at

857
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:26,480
first

858
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:28,960
uh it's interesting to see the response

859
00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:30,800
as they begin to get interested

860
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:33,839
and then once in a while well more than

861
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:35,280
once in a while

862
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:36,720
they'll open up and tell you about

863
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:38,720
something that's happened to them

864
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:41,599
and uh yeah it's uh it's yeah so no i've

865
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:43,599
never made a secret of it

866
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:45,919
yes exactly see that's that's that's the

867
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:47,040
way it's been

868
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:49,760
uh with re with me practically my entire

869
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:51,520
life is that you know people

870
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:53,520
a lot of times well there's a group

871
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:55,280
around you know they'll laugh ah you

872
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:56,399
know we don't believe in that kind of

873
00:34:59,190 --> 00:34:56,800
stuff

874
00:35:01,910 --> 00:34:59,200
but then later come back and say you

875
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:01,920
know i had this

876
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:03,359
you know proceed to tell you this you

877
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:05,440
know bizarre story and to pull you

878
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:07,119
fully into the corner where no one else

879
00:35:10,950 --> 00:35:08,880
can hear exactly

880
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:10,960
exactly and i think a lot of these

881
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:12,240
people they just uh

882
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:14,960
uh they've never told anybody else they

883
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:17,200
just want uh

884
00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:20,320
you know like a kind shoulder to lean on

885
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:22,079
to tell their story to

886
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:24,400
yeah i think that's exactly right they

887
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:26,079
they they have a they have a strange

888
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:28,000
experience they can't explain

889
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:29,760
they just want the opportunity to be

890
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:31,920
heard and not laughed at

891
00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:34,000
and yeah so i've always i've always been

892
00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:34,960
the uh

893
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:38,000
the open ear for the for folks like that

894
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:41,359
well as well as ufo research i mean i

895
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:45,359
i see that gosh i mean you know

896
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:47,680
how to place animal sightings you know

897
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:49,680
the animal mutilations

898
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:51,920
bigfoot reports the men in black

899
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:53,040
phenomena

900
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:55,680
i mean you know these are things that a

901
00:36:02,150 --> 00:35:58,160
lot of ufo researchers

902
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:02,160
dare not tread because i think some

903
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:04,880
are afraid that looking into some of

904
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:06,240
these

905
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:09,839
kind of high strangeness

906
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:13,359
types of stories would somehow sully

907
00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:15,920
their reputation as a uh as as a

908
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:18,079
competent ufo researcher

909
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:20,000
well you know that's that's uh i think

910
00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:21,680
that's very true and i think that's an

911
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:24,160
accurate assessment of it but you know

912
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:24,800
for me

913
00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:30,720
i've always in the back of my mind had

914
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:31,599
this

915
00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:39,119
much like einstein wanted to establish a

916
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:40,880
unified field theory a theory of

917
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:42,079
everything

918
00:36:48,150 --> 00:36:45,119
uh i wonder at times if there's not

919
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:48,160
uh a sort of a unified field theory that

920
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:49,040
could be developed

921
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:51,839
for all of paranormal phenomena and each

922
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:53,520
of the different manifestations

923
00:36:59,510 --> 00:36:57,680
are really uh a separate manifestation

924
00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:59,520
from the same source

925
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:01,520
i i i don't know but there's there are

926
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:02,560
so many things

927
00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:07,119
there are uh have been reports for

928
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:10,480
well into the 18th century uh just south

929
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:13,119
of my hometown in nebraska city of

930
00:37:17,829 --> 00:37:16,320
a strange bigfoot like creature with

931
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:17,839
glowing red eyes

932
00:37:24,470 --> 00:37:22,480
that seems to disappear leaves tracks

933
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:24,480
uh interacts physically with the

934
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:26,800
environment but has vanished in front of

935
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:28,400
people's eyes

936
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:31,599
uh it's a typical in many ways bigfoot

937
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:32,640
report except

938
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:35,040
for the glowing red eyes and the ability

939
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:36,160
to vanish

940
00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:39,119
into thin air uh how do you how do you

941
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:40,720
categorize that

942
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:45,200
uh is bigfoot uh an actual relic hominid

943
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:47,040
i i don't know i think some of them

944
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:48,560
could be uh

945
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:51,760
but there's a there's a core of

946
00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:55,119
bigfoot cases that are uh very much of a

947
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:56,800
high strangeness nature

948
00:38:01,030 --> 00:37:59,760
and i don't know um i don't know how you

949
00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:01,040
fit those into

950
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:03,680
well it's just a biological animal who

951
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:05,280
we haven't discovered yet who's roaming

952
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:06,560
around

953
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:08,720
that can also vanish into thin air you

954
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:10,160
know that doesn't that doesn't

955
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:14,160
make a lot of logical sense to me um

956
00:38:18,150 --> 00:38:16,640
there yeah there's just so many uh so

957
00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:18,160
many things from

958
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:21,920
uh just here in nebraska sightings of

959
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:25,440
kangaroos near grand island nothing had

960
00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:28,560
escaped from a traveling circus or a zoo

961
00:38:32,230 --> 00:38:31,359
but people see kangaroos there were

962
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:32,240
sightings of

963
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:34,960
african lions in a little town near a

964
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:35,680
little town called

965
00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:38,880
ceresco uh just northeast of lincoln

966
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:42,400
uh in the 50s and 60s um just

967
00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:45,200
there's just a panoply of weird things

968
00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:46,240
that happen

969
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:49,119
uh and that's you know don't get me

970
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:50,560
started on trying to branch out across

971
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:52,000
the country

972
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:54,880
for things that are out there um you

973
00:39:00,150 --> 00:38:56,720
know the animal mutilations

974
00:39:03,990 --> 00:39:00,160
uh i found interesting i i

975
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:04,000
first ran across that in

976
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:06,960
in the early 70s when a family friend

977
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:08,560
who farmed just west of

978
00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:11,040
nebraska city found a mutilated cow on

979
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:12,960
his property

980
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:16,800
and it was the strangest thing um

981
00:39:20,790 --> 00:39:19,040
it would it did not this was in late

982
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:20,800
july early august

983
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:22,800
and he found it dead and the typical

984
00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:24,720
sort of immediately the rectal area

985
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:25,839
cored out

986
00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:28,000
uh patches of skin on one side of its

987
00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:30,079
head removed

988
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:34,800
um the genitals taken uh as well

989
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:38,240
and the vet who examined it had no cause

990
00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:39,440
of death for it

991
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:42,880
but it didn't decay

992
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:45,839
and nebraska is a very hot and humid

993
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:47,359
place in the summer

994
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:50,160
and he called me the day after he had

995
00:39:53,190 --> 00:39:50,960
found it

996
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:53,200
and we went out there was no odor there

997
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:54,880
were no flies on it

998
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:56,800
there were no bird droppings on it

999
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:57,920
because a lot of

1000
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:01,200
ravens and crows and turkey vultures

1001
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:02,560
around here will uh

1002
00:40:06,790 --> 00:40:05,920
will attack downed animals and scavenge

1003
00:40:09,589 --> 00:40:06,800
them

1004
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:09,599
nothing nothing nothing touched it his

1005
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:11,119
other cattle wouldn't go near it

1006
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:14,480
no predators no scavengers nothing

1007
00:40:17,670 --> 00:40:16,800
and that really ignited my interest in

1008
00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:17,680
that and i

1009
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:21,440
began to to assist tom adams

1010
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:23,680
and share cases with him tom adams was

1011
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:26,160
the probably the premier

1012
00:40:32,309 --> 00:40:29,599
uh mutilation investigator

1013
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:32,319
and when he passed away i took it upon

1014
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:34,640
myself to collect all of his

1015
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:37,920
uh writings and put them in in a

1016
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:39,920
collection called bloodless cuts

1017
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,880
uh he did he did the seminal work on on

1018
00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:44,400
animal mutilations

1019
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:47,520
uh and picked up uh was his

1020
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:50,240
torch was carried on in a large uh

1021
00:40:54,630 --> 00:40:51,119
manner

1022
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,640
by linda molten howe um but that was

1023
00:40:57,750 --> 00:40:56,400
that was interesting i should throw in

1024
00:41:01,950 --> 00:40:57,760
here as well

1025
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:01,960
uh if anybody is interested if you go to

1026
00:41:07,390 --> 00:41:04,480
academia.edu

1027
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:07,400
and search for my name ray beauche

1028
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:09,040
b-o-e-c-h-e

1029
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:11,520
uh you'll find not only the complete

1030
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:12,880
annals of the journal of the foreign

1031
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:15,200
research center but bloodless cuts

1032
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:18,160
um you'll find everything that's that

1033
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:20,000
i've made public so far out there you

1034
00:41:24,309 --> 00:41:21,200
can download it

1035
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:27,510
that's a good deal no way

1036
00:41:33,970 --> 00:41:32,560
yeah unless of course

1037
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:33,980
you you're ruining my business

1038
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,520
[Laughter]

1039
00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:41,760
well you know when it comes to the the

1040
00:41:45,270 --> 00:41:43,280
the whole uh

1041
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:45,280
cattle mutilation thing you know i mean

1042
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:46,880
you have the skeptics who are just like

1043
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:48,240
oh you know it's just

1044
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:51,520
uh you know cows just died and the old

1045
00:41:54,950 --> 00:41:52,720
possums have

1046
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:54,960
you know burrowed into them and cored

1047
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:56,480
them out and things like that

1048
00:42:00,710 --> 00:42:00,079
yet you know that the ranchers and

1049
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:00,720
farmers

1050
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:04,720
who who have owned these cattle you know

1051
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:07,520
for for years been in their family they

1052
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:09,359
know the difference

1053
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:12,480
absolutely that's that to me puts the

1054
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:15,359
is the one thing that puts that

1055
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:16,000
skeptical

1056
00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:19,040
response to sleep because

1057
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:20,800
if you're if you're a farmer or a

1058
00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:22,640
rancher you see

1059
00:42:26,309 --> 00:42:25,280
you see animals die on a fairly regular

1060
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:26,319
basis

1061
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:29,359
and you know what scavengers do you you

1062
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:31,200
know what that looks like

1063
00:42:37,510 --> 00:42:34,880
and as i would examine carcasses

1064
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,520
around here you know i that was one of

1065
00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:39,359
the first questions i'd ask i'd ask the

1066
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:40,720
far so i said does this

1067
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:42,960
does this look like a coyote came in and

1068
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:44,880
was gnawn on this

1069
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:46,480
said no we've never seen anything like

1070
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:49,839
this and once you once you've seen

1071
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:53,359
a normal cattle death and then the

1072
00:42:57,270 --> 00:42:54,240
carcass is

1073
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:57,280
is affected by predation it doesn't it

1074
00:43:02,710 --> 00:42:59,280
doesn't take a rocket scientist

1075
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:02,720
to spot the difference pretty quickly um

1076
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:06,160
so that's a that doesn't hold much water

1077
00:43:10,790 --> 00:43:09,119
uh but there again it's such a baffling

1078
00:43:14,309 --> 00:43:10,800
thing because you've got

1079
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:14,319
cases that appear to be

1080
00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:17,839
attributable to for one of a better word

1081
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:19,359
cult activity

1082
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:21,760
you've got some cases that appear to

1083
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:24,720
have very strong links to ufo sightings

1084
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:26,240
you've got some that have very strong

1085
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:29,280
links to the mysterious black helicopter

1086
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:30,160
sightings

1087
00:43:33,190 --> 00:43:31,920
and then you've got some cases that

1088
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:33,200
where actual

1089
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:36,560
u.s government issue instruments medical

1090
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:38,160
instruments have been found

1091
00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:41,200
in fields next to mutilated cattle

1092
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:44,640
so you pick a theory and you can find

1093
00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:47,760
cases that support it but

1094
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:51,280
what there again no i i have no answers

1095
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:53,040
but it um

1096
00:43:56,309 --> 00:43:56,000
it just fascinates me to know when to to

1097
00:43:59,589 --> 00:43:56,319
dig

1098
00:44:02,230 --> 00:43:59,599
in and see what i can find and at least

1099
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:02,240
at least hopefully to compile a record

1100
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:03,920
so that when i'm gone

1101
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:05,200
that people have something else to

1102
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:06,880
follow and they can pick up the threads

1103
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:08,079
and move on from there

1104
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:10,800
there you go fascinating fascinating

1105
00:44:13,589 --> 00:44:11,680
fascinating i

1106
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,599
just you have some incredible

1107
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:14,800
information there and

1108
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:16,960
uh a lot that we didn't cover that i

1109
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:18,319
think we should get back to

1110
00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:21,359
in a couple of months i mean we want to

1111
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:22,160
get into the

1112
00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:24,880
rendition of forest and you've got some

1113
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:25,680
and black

1114
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:27,599
stories there and more in the mutilation

1115
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:29,359
so we're not finished yet

1116
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:31,280
uh tip all right we'll close out the

1117
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:33,200
show here all right well

1118
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:36,400
uh i just uh uh uh uh ray why don't you

1119
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:38,400
uh one more time really quick uh tell

1120
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:40,480
our audience uh where

1121
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:43,119
they can go online to uh uh find the

1122
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:44,960
books that you were talking about

1123
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:48,240
you bet www dot academia

1124
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:52,240
a c a a-c-a-d-e-m-i-a dot e-d-u

1125
00:44:59,109 --> 00:44:55,760
and search for my name all right

1126
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:59,119
fantastic and uh tim beckley you've got

1127
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:00,720
uh you're working on a couple of books

1128
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:02,880
right now that uh hopefully will be out

1129
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:03,599
soon

1130
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:05,359
yeah well i don't want to give the title

1131
00:45:08,470 --> 00:45:06,640
uh away to uh

1132
00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:08,480
one of them because it's something

1133
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:10,560
somebody could would easily grab and and

1134
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:12,880
run to it but

1135
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:15,680
tonight's a conversation certainly ties

1136
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:16,480
in with the uh

1137
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:19,520
uh we have a series of

1138
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:23,440
books uh ufo hostilities and

1139
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:26,000
the round trip to hell in a flying

1140
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:26,800
saucer

1141
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:28,400
got some great material in there if

1142
00:45:34,069 --> 00:45:30,880
you're prone to think that

1143
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:34,079
some ufos may be a demonic well this

1144
00:45:40,230 --> 00:45:38,230
what's your appetite for that more

1145
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:40,240
information and of course

1146
00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:42,640
check out our youtube channel mr ufo

1147
00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:43,680
secret files

1148
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:45,760
we need to get some stuff up there we're

1149
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:47,680
way behind but of course you always got

1150
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:50,800
kco radio.com

1151
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:52,960
we got the archives going back to the

1152
00:46:00,790 --> 00:45:55,280
very beginning thanks to tina

1153
00:46:02,950 --> 00:46:00,800
all right good night

1154
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:02,960
you've been listening to exploring the

1155
00:46:07,470 --> 00:46:04,240
bazaar